Dynomotion

Group: DynoMotion Message: 682 From: funncarsmi Date: 10/2/2010
Subject: Tree 320 retrofit
I'm good mechanically, can handle 220/110VAC and 12VDC electric, have built many computers, and good at following direction, BUT know NOTHING about CNC controls.

I have a 1984 Tree 320 Journeyman 3 axis mill with motorized knee. It is connected to 220-3phase. The controls were working until the memory battery died and I can't get the parameters reloaded, but the controls had a lot of other PITA problems and it really needs to be retired.

The motors are Gould 12.5 AMP with 2.89 LB-IN/Amp.
The Controller is a Gettys N360 "three phase half wave controller" Line to line voltage: 240vac max, 60hz, Rated Motor Current: 12.5Amp. 45 Amps DC Continuous Max. The spindle motor is a Rouland 2hp 1800 rpm 220/440V 6.2/3.1 amp, and it has a Rouland 6lb-ft 220/3/60 magnetic brake mounted to it. I expect keeping it 3 phase will be the easiest, and I would prefer not to incur the cost of replacing the drives if I don't have to.

I am in way over my head. How do I proceed?
Has anyone driven N360 drives? and if one dies in the future, will I need to start over again? I want this back up and running in the next 30 days. If someone has done this already and has schematics it would make my life much easier. I really don't want to reinvent the wheel.

Advice/suggestions/directions welcome

Gregg
Group: DynoMotion Message: 684 From: Tom Kerekes Date: 10/2/2010
Subject: Re: Tree 320 retrofit
Hi Gregg,
 
We helped someone to do a TREE retrofit from around that time frame.  It was just a 2 axes system (XY).  One big problem was that it had resolvers rather than optical encoders.  We used the resolvers but I don't really recommend it as they ended up having distortion that we had to remove in software and it was very complicated.
 
The servo motors were DC brush motors with tachometers.  The amplifiers allowed a +/- 10V analog input as a velocity command (which was good)
 
 
So the first step would be to determine if your system has resolvers or encoders.
The next step would be to see if you can find the +/- 10V input to the amplifiers and apply a small voltage (1.5V battery) and see if you can make the motors move.
 
Regards
TK

Group: DynoMotion Message: 685 From: funncarsmi Date: 10/2/2010
Subject: Re: Tree 320 retrofit
For the 3 axis the Tree 320 uses a 500 line/rev Dynamic Research Corp. encoder. I do not know if they are using the sine wave version (DRC-150) or the square wave version (DRC-152), and I don't know the ratio of encoder turns that equal 1 motor turn. Excitation is 5.0VDC +/- 5% and 100 mA nominal current.
The motors are DC brush and I believe they each have a tach on them.

The drives were all working when the CPU memory battery died. One was making a slight buzz like the previous owner had the gain turned too high on the N360.
I will they work with a 1.5V battery on Monday ...I haven't looked at the N360 connections yet, so I don't know if finding the proper contacts will be obvious or a guessing game.

-Gregg

--- In DynoMotion@yahoogroups.com, Tom Kerekes <tk@...> wrote:
>
> Hi Gregg,
>
> We helped someone to do a TREE retrofit from around that time frame.  It was
> just a 2 axes system (XY).  One big problem was that it had resolvers rather
> than optical encoders.  We used the resolvers but I don't really recommend it as
> they ended up having distortion that we had to remove in software and it was
> very complicated.
>
> The servo motors were DC brush motors with tachometers.  The amplifiers allowed
> a +/- 10V analog input as a velocity command (which was good)
>
>
> So the first step would be to determine if your system has resolvers or
> encoders.
>
> The next step would be to see if you can find the +/- 10V input to the
> amplifiers and apply a small voltage (1.5V battery) and see if you can make the
> motors move.
>
> Regards
> TK
Group: DynoMotion Message: 690 From: funncarsmi Date: 10/4/2010
Subject: Re: Tree 320 retrofit
Today I confirmed the motors move in both directions using a 1.5v battery. They don't move far before a circuit pops and I have to hit the "emergency stop reset" button, but they definitely move.

That means we have 500 line encoders and functional Gettys N360 drives and functional drive motors.

-Gregg

--- In DynoMotion@yahoogroups.com, "funncarsmi" <funncars@...> wrote:
>
> For the 3 axis the Tree 320 uses a 500 line/rev Dynamic Research Corp. encoder. I do not know if they are using the sine wave version (DRC-150) or the square wave version (DRC-152), and I don't know the ratio of encoder turns that equal 1 motor turn. Excitation is 5.0VDC +/- 5% and 100 mA nominal current.
> The motors are DC brush and I believe they each have a tach on them.
>
> The drives were all working when the CPU memory battery died. One was making a slight buzz like the previous owner had the gain turned too high on the N360.
> I will they work with a 1.5V battery on Monday ...I haven't looked at the N360 connections yet, so I don't know if finding the proper contacts will be obvious or a guessing game.
>
> -Gregg
>
> --- In DynoMotion@yahoogroups.com, Tom Kerekes <tk@> wrote:
> >
> > Hi Gregg,
> >
> > We helped someone to do a TREE retrofit from around that time frame.  It was
> > just a 2 axes system (XY).  One big problem was that it had resolvers rather
> > than optical encoders.  We used the resolvers but I don't really recommend it as
> > they ended up having distortion that we had to remove in software and it was
> > very complicated.
> >
> > The servo motors were DC brush motors with tachometers.  The amplifiers allowed
> > a +/- 10V analog input as a velocity command (which was good)
> >
> >
> > So the first step would be to determine if your system has resolvers or
> > encoders.
> >
> > The next step would be to see if you can find the +/- 10V input to the
> > amplifiers and apply a small voltage (1.5V battery) and see if you can make the
> > motors move.
> >
> > Regards
> > TK
>
Group: DynoMotion Message: 691 From: Tom Kerekes Date: 10/4/2010
Subject: Re: Tree 320 retrofit
Hi Gregg,
 
Not sure what you mean, but that doesn't sound right.  The motors should move at a controlled and constant speed of ~15% of max speed since 1.5V is 15% of 10V.
 
It might be that trying to instantly accelerate to 15% of full speed is drawing too much current and tripping an over current fault.
 
You might try using a smaller voltage by using a resistor voltage divider or better yet a potentiometer.
 
TK
 

Group: DynoMotion Message: 693 From: funncarsmi Date: 10/5/2010
Subject: Re: Tree 320 retrofit
Tom,
The old controller/computer doesn't have all the correct parameters in it right now. The encoders was turning with the motor (as one would expect), but the computer wasn't giving it a command to move, rather I was doing that with a battery. The computer would see that as a runaway drive and should shut it down ...which is exactly what it did. I would hear the E stop click in and I would have to reset it. The drive did appear to be moving at a constant speed ...right up until the e-stop would cut power.

I feel comfortable that the drives are working ...so onto the next item. I assume I now need a Kflop and Kanalog board to move forward.

In the interim, I need to trace the limit switch wires, the encoder wires, figure out the spindle drive operation, and investigate the e-stop switch operation/schematics (from the partial schematics that I do have).

-Gregg

--- In DynoMotion@yahoogroups.com, Tom Kerekes <tk@...> wrote:
>
> Hi Gregg,
>
> Not sure what you mean, but that doesn't sound right.  The motors should move at
> a controlled and constant speed of ~15% of max speed since 1.5V is 15% of 10V.
>
> It might be that trying to instantly accelerate to 15% of full speed is drawing
> too much current and tripping an over current fault.
>
> You might try using a smaller voltage by using a resistor voltage divider or
> better yet a potentiometer.
>
> TK

>
> ________________________________
> From: funncarsmi <funncars@...>
> To: DynoMotion@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Mon, October 4, 2010 9:20:20 PM
> Subject: [DynoMotion] Re: Tree 320 retrofit
>
>  
> Today I confirmed the motors move in both directions using a 1.5v battery. They
> don't move far before a circuit pops and I have to hit the "emergency stop
> reset" button, but they definitely move.
>
>
> That means we have 500 line encoders and functional Gettys N360 drives and
> functional drive motors.
>
> -Gregg
>
Group: DynoMotion Message: 694 From: Marty Escarcega Date: 10/5/2010
Subject: Re: Tree 320 retrofit
Gregg, keep us posted on your progress. Pictures would be great too. (Uploaded to the photos area)
I intend to embark on the same adventure soon.
Marty
---- funncarsmi <funncars@...> wrote:
> Tom,
> The old controller/computer doesn't have all the correct parameters in it right now. The encoders was turning with the motor (as one would expect), but the computer wasn't giving it a command to move, rather I was doing that with a battery. The computer would see that as a runaway drive and should shut it down ...which is exactly what it did. I would hear the E stop click in and I would have to reset it. The drive did appear to be moving at a constant speed ...right up until the e-stop would cut power.
>
> I feel comfortable that the drives are working ...so onto the next item. I assume I now need a Kflop and Kanalog board to move forward.
>
> In the interim, I need to trace the limit switch wires, the encoder wires, figure out the spindle drive operation, and investigate the e-stop switch operation/schematics (from the partial schematics that I do have).
>
> -Gregg
>
> --- In DynoMotion@yahoogroups.com, Tom Kerekes <tk@...> wrote:
> >
> > Hi Gregg,
> >
> > Not sure what you mean, but that doesn't sound right.  The motors should move at
> > a controlled and constant speed of ~15% of max speed since 1.5V is 15% of 10V.
> >
> > It might be that trying to instantly accelerate to 15% of full speed is drawing
> > too much current and tripping an over current fault.
> >
> > You might try using a smaller voltage by using a resistor voltage divider or
> > better yet a potentiometer.
> >
> > TK
>
> >
> > ________________________________
> > From: funncarsmi <funncars@...>
> > To: DynoMotion@yahoogroups.com
> > Sent: Mon, October 4, 2010 9:20:20 PM
> > Subject: [DynoMotion] Re: Tree 320 retrofit
> >
> >  
> > Today I confirmed the motors move in both directions using a 1.5v battery. They
> > don't move far before a circuit pops and I have to hit the "emergency stop
> > reset" button, but they definitely move.
> >
> >
> > That means we have 500 line encoders and functional Gettys N360 drives and
> > functional drive motors.
> >
> > -Gregg
> >
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
Group: DynoMotion Message: 703 From: funncarsmi Date: 10/6/2010
Subject: Re: Tree 320 retrofit
Marty,
I will start a folder that will be a duplicate of the records I am generating for my own build purposes. It will have photos, diagrams, and instructions so anyone else that wants to do this will have a step by step explanation of wire locations, what to measure, and how to do this.

Gregg

--- In DynoMotion@yahoogroups.com, Marty Escarcega <escarcega@...> wrote:
>
> Gregg, keep us posted on your progress. Pictures would be great too. (Uploaded to the photos area)
> I intend to embark on the same adventure soon.
> Marty
>
Group: DynoMotion Message: 704 From: Marty Escarcega Date: 10/6/2010
Subject: Re: Tree 320 retrofit
Awesome, the wiring diagram will be very helpful.
Thanks Gregg
Marty
---- funncarsmi <funncars@...> wrote:
> Marty,
> I will start a folder that will be a duplicate of the records I am generating for my own build purposes. It will have photos, diagrams, and instructions so anyone else that wants to do this will have a step by step explanation of wire locations, what to measure, and how to do this.
>
> Gregg
>
> --- In DynoMotion@yahoogroups.com, Marty Escarcega <escarcega@...> wrote:
> >
> > Gregg, keep us posted on your progress. Pictures would be great too. (Uploaded to the photos area)
> > I intend to embark on the same adventure soon.
> > Marty
> >
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>