To anyone that can help,

I am currently setting up an application that will use (2) KMotion
motor control boards. My current knowledge ends with G-code
programming and servo motor applications i.e. CNC lathes and Milling
machines.

In this application I will be using (8) stepper motors but I will be
only runnng 1-axis at a time.

If anyone could offer a programming example that uses multiple
boards and stepper motors it would be helpful for me to see any
differences in designating linear movement for a stepper motor.

I am currently writing a line by line requirement of the sequence
that I need to program to give myself an outline of the motions
without the numerical values for each move.



The following is a list of the equipment that I am using;

-Toshiba M200 Tablet PC running Windows XP Professional
-KMotion Software
-(2) KMotion Motor Control Boards

#1 Motor- (X-axis)
Model # 5709L-03, Frame Size-23, 0.9 Step angle,
http://www.linengineering.com/site/products/5709.html

#2 Motor- (Y-axis)
Model # 5709L-03, Frame Size-23, 0.9 Step angle,
http://www.linengineering.com/site/products/5709.html

#3 Motor- (Z-axis)
Hybrid Linear Actuator - Size 17 Captive shaft HSI 43000 Series
1.8 degree step angle, .00125 travel per step
http://www.hsimotors.com/hybrid/Size17-Captive.htm#Draw

#4 Motor- (A-axis)
Hybrid Linear Actuator - Size 17 Captive shaft HSI 43000 Series
1.8 degree step angle, .00125 travel per step
http://www.hsimotors.com/hybrid/Size17-Captive.htm#Draw

#5 Motor- (B-axis)
Model # 4018M-05, 1.8 degree step angle
http://www.linengineering.com/site/products/4018.html

#6 Motor- (C-axis)
Model # 4018M-05, 1.8 degree step angle
http://www.linengineering.com/site/products/4018.html

#7 Motor- (D-axis)
Model # 211-18-02, 1.8 degree step angle
http://www.linengineering.com/site/products/211.html

#8 Motor- (E-axis)
Model # 4018M-05, 1.8 degree step angle
http://www.linengineering.com/site/products/4018.html

Thank you in advance for any assistance that you may offer and
please don't hesitate to ask for additional information that you may
require.

Cheers
Dan


Dan Zimmermann, President
GBOGH Research
gboghmobile@telus.net

Hi Dan,

Do you have the motors and power supplies connected, axes configured as
steppers, and are you able to move them using the KMotion Executive program's
Console Screen?

For info on how to connect motors see:

http://www.dynomotion.com/Help/Schematics/Connectors.htm

For info on how to configure the axes for steppers see:

http://www.dynomotion.com/Help/ConfigurationScreen/ConfigurationScreen.htm

For info on how to move a motor from the KMotion Console Screen see:

http://www.dynomotion.com/Help/ConsoleScreen/ConsoleScreen.htm

Try typing a command like "MoveRel0=50.0" (Move Relative axis
0 50 cycles) to see if Motor #1 rotates.

Assuming you are able to move motors with the KMotion Executive, there
are several choices on how to control the boards. 

They are:

#1 - Write Microsoft Windows program to issue commands to the board
using either Visual Studio C++ or Visual Basic.

#2 - Write a C program that is loaded (and possibly flashed) into the
KMotion board.  This program may run in "stand alone" mode where
a host PC isn't even connected.

#3 - Write a GCode motion program and load it into the KMotion
Executive program and execute it.

It's not clear what your application is, or how you want the system to
be operated, but usually the most flexible technique is #1, especially for using
multiple boards.  Basically the program issues the same commands that are
available on the console screen.  This does require a means of programming
under MS Windows.  DynoMotion provides canned examples for Microsoft
Visual Studio 6.0.  If you look into the directory where the KMotion
Software was installed there is a directory called:

<IntstallDirectory>\PC VC Examples

Within that folder there is a project called SimpleConsole.  This
is a Simple Windows console application that connects to the board, configures
one axis as a stepper, commands the axis to move, reads status to determine
when the motion is complete, and sends a message that will be displayed on the
KMotion Executive Console Screen if it is running.  The entire C++ program
is pasted below.  To talk to the other axes (on the same board) it is
basically a matter of duplicating code and changing the axis (sometimes
referred as channel) number.  The example assumes that there is only one
board connected to the system and takes advantage of the fact that a single
board in a system can be referred to as board 0.  When you connect
multiple boards to a system you should change the board number to the USB
identifier for where the board is connected.  For more info on multiple
boards see:

http://www.dynomotion.com/Help/MultipleBoards.htm

I hope this helps.  Let us know if you have further questions.

Tom Kerekes

Dynomotion, Inc.

// SimpleConsole.cpp

#include "stdafx.h"

#include "stdlib.h"

#include "..\..\KMotionDll\KMotionDll.h"  // KMOtion DLL
Header

CKMotionDLL
KM;               
// one instance of the interface class

void MyError();

int main(int argc, char* argv[])

{

       int board=0;

       char response[MAX_LINE];

       // Setup Axis for a simple stepper
motor

       if (KM.WriteLine(board,
"DisableAxis1=0"))      MyError(); // Set
board 0, Axis 1 to OFF while changing parameters

       if (KM.WriteLine(board,
"Zero1=0"))             MyError();
// Zero position board 0, Axis 1

       if (KM.WriteLine(board,
"StepperAmplitude1=80"))MyError(); // Set nominal Sine wave amplitude
to 80/256 of Motor supply voltage

       if (KM.WriteLine(board,
"Vel1=100"))            MyError();
// Set Max Velocity to 100 cycles/sec (4 full steps/sec = 1 cycle)

       if (KM.WriteLine(board,
"Accel1=50"))           MyError();
// Set Max Acceleration to 50 cycles/sec2

       if (KM.WriteLine(board,
"Jerk1=2000"))          MyError();
// Set Max Jerk to 2000 cycles/sec3

       if (KM.WriteLine(board,
"Lead1=10"))            MyError();
// Set Inductance Lead compensation to 10 * dV/dt

       if (KM.WriteLine(board,
"OutputMode1=1"))       MyError(); //
Set board 0, Axis 1 to MICROSTEP_MODE (see KMotionDef.h)

       if (KM.WriteLine(board,
"EnableAxisDest1 0"))   MyError(); // Zero position board
0, Axis 1

       if (KM.WriteLine(board, "Echo
Setup Complete")) MyError(); // Echo a string to console

       // move board 0, axis 1, 1000
counts relative

       if (KM.WriteLine(board,
"MoveRel1=100"))  MyError();

       // loop until complete complete
status = 1

       do

       {

              if
(KM.WriteLineReadLine(board,"CheckDone1",response))

                     MyError();

       }

       while (response[0] != '1');

       if (KM.WriteLine(board, "Echo
Move Complete")) MyError(); // Echo a string to console

       return 0;

}

// Display Error and terminate

void MyError()

{

       printf("Unable to communicate
with KMotion board");

       exit(1);

}

-----Original Message-----

From: DynoMotion@yahoogroups.com [mailto:DynoMotion@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
Of Dan Zimmermann

Sent: Sunday, December 18, 2005 10:11 PM

To: DynoMotion@yahoogroups.com

Subject: [DynoMotion] KMotion multiple board programming assistance

To anyone that can help,

 I am currently setting up an application that will use (2)
KMotion

motor control boards.  My current knowledge ends with G-code

programming and servo motor applications i.e. CNC lathes and Milling

machines.

In this application I will be using (8) stepper motors but I will be

only runnng 1-axis at a time. 

If anyone could offer a programming example that uses multiple

boards and stepper motors it would be helpful for me to see any

differences in designating linear movement for a stepper motor.

I am currently writing a line by line requirement of the sequence

that I need to program to give myself an outline of the motions

without the numerical values for each move.

The following is a list of the equipment that I am using;

-Toshiba M200 Tablet PC running Windows XP Professional

-KMotion Software

-(2) KMotion Motor Control Boards

#1 Motor- (X-axis)

     Model # 5709L-03, Frame Size-23, 0.9 Step
angle,

    http://www.linengineering.com/site/products/5709.html

#2 Motor- (Y-axis)

     Model # 5709L-03, Frame Size-23, 0.9 Step
angle,

   
http://www.linengineering.com/site/products/5709.html

#3 Motor- (Z-axis)

    Hybrid Linear Actuator - Size 17 Captive shaft 
HSI 43000 Series

    1.8 degree step angle, .00125 travel per step

http://www.hsimotors.com/hybrid/Size17-Captive.htm#Draw

#4 Motor- (A-axis)

    Hybrid Linear Actuator - Size 17 Captive shaft 
HSI 43000 Series

    1.8 degree step angle, .00125 travel per step

http://www.hsimotors.com/hybrid/Size17-Captive.htm#Draw

#5 Motor- (B-axis)

    Model # 4018M-05, 1.8 degree step angle

http://www.linengineering.com/site/products/4018.html

#6 Motor- (C-axis)

    Model # 4018M-05, 1.8 degree step angle

http://www.linengineering.com/site/products/4018.html

#7 Motor- (D-axis)

    Model # 211-18-02, 1.8 degree step angle

http://www.linengineering.com/site/products/211.html

#8 Motor- (E-axis)

    Model # 4018M-05, 1.8 degree step angle

http://www.linengineering.com/site/products/4018.html

Thank you in advance for any assistance that you may offer and

please don't hesitate to ask for additional information that you may

require.

Cheers

Dan

Dan Zimmermann, President

GBOGH Research

gboghmobile@telus.net

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Yahoo! Groups Links

<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:

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<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:

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<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:

    http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

I recently had a problem with a Kmotion board w/ dual Snapamps where
the program would run but when M2 was called, the Snapamps would shut
down and power had to be cycled. Thanks to Tom, the problem was traced
to M2 being linked to other M codes that weren't being used (in this
case M5 spindle stop). By setting the programmable M codes in Tool
Setup to do nothing, the problem was solved.

When using a VFD that has the ability to output a logic signal when a
fault occurs, is it possible to have KMotionCNC read the input an
execute a program that duplicates or triggers the E-stop button on the
main page to prevent scrapped parts and broken cutters? What would the
C code look like to do something like that? Or is there an easier way
to do it?

It's not clear what would give the best result, to do a feedhold or kill all the axes?

Below is some "watchdog" code  that runs continuously and when it sees an input change issues a feedhold (StopCoordinatedMotion()).  Add the "for" loop to the end of your Init.c program so after your initialization the loop will continue to run.

You might also try replacing the StopCoordinatedMotion with:

DisableAxis(0); DisableAxis(1); DisableAxis(2); 

which would act more like estop.

I hope this helps.

TK

#include "KMotionDef.h"

main()
{
     int fault=0;
 
     for (;;)     // repeat forever
     {
          WaitNextTimeSlice(); // execute one loop per time slice
  
          // check external fault signal
  
          if (!fault && ReadBit(19)) 
          {
               fault=1;  // remember we are in a fault state
               StopCoordinatedMotion();  // do a feed hold  
          }
          if (fault &&
!ReadBit(19))
          {
               fault=0;  // remember we are no longer in a fault state
          }
     }
}

From: strohm81 <strohm81@yahoo.com>
To: DynoMotion@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, December 7, 2008 7:43:56 PM
Subject: [DynoMotion] Triggering E-stop with input

When using a VFD that has the ability to output a logic signal when a
fault occurs, is it possible to have KMotionCNC read the input an
execute a program that duplicates or triggers the E-stop button on the
main page to prevent scrapped parts and broken cutters? What would the
C code look like to do something like that? Or is there an easier way
to do it?

I ve just started with KMotion, i ve KMotion board .
I ve connected the encoder channels A and B to the KMotion JP3 pins 15
and 16.
Now I want to test the Encoder position, any help?
thanks
Azed

Azed,

Run the Kmotion.exe program.  Since
you have a KMotion board.  Make sure the KFLOP option is not checked under
the option menu.

Open the Axis Screen.  Does the
Position of Axis #0 change when you rotate the encoder?

You should also be able to see the two
input bits #0 and #1 change randomly on the Digital IO screen when you rotate
the encoder.

If all this works you can print the
encoder position from a C program with something like:

            printf(“Encoder
0 = %f\n”,ch0->Position);

TK

From:
DynoMotion@yahoogroups.com [mailto:DynoMotion@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of azken98

Sent: Tuesday, December 30, 2008
9:29 PM

To: DynoMotion@yahoogroups.com

Subject: [DynoMotion] Kmotion: how
to read current position using c parogram

I ve just started with KMotion, i ve KMotion board .

I ve connected the encoder channels A and B to the KMotion JP3 pins 15

and 16.

Now I want to test the Encoder position, any help?

thanks

Azed

Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com

Version: 8.0.176 / Virus Database: 270.10.1/1868 - Release Date: 12/30/2008 12:06 PM


 

Hi Azed,

All IO pins should default as
inputs.  You can verify this on the Digital IO Screen.

Axis channel #0 defaults to read encoder
channel #0 which would be KMotion Encoder #0

Axis channel #4 defaults to read encoder
channel #4 which would be SnapAmp0 Encoder #0

Are you connecting a ground and +5V to the
encoder?  (sorry had to ask).

SnapAmp has differential encoder inputs
(A, /A, B, /B) where KMotion only has single ended encoder inputs (A and B). 
Do you understand the difference?  For single ended just connect 2 of the
4 signal wires.  Can you see the IO bits toggle on the Digital IO Screen?

TK

From:
DynoMotion@yahoogroups.com [mailto:DynoMotion@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Azd Md

Sent: Tuesday, December 30, 2008
10:46 PM

To: DynoMotion@yahoogroups.com

Subject: RE: [DynoMotion] Kmotion:
how to read current position using c parogram

Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com

Version: 8.0.176 / Virus Database: 270.10.1/1870 - Release Date: 12/31/2008 8:44 AM


 

Hi Azed,

Regarding Encoder connected to KMotion:

A single click should change the IO to an output (not a double click).  It's not a good idea to connect two outputs together as they will "fight" each other.   Maybe your encoders have open collector outputs that require a pullup resistor?

Regarding Kanalog:

The requirement is a differential signal.  Kanalog has on board 400ohm termination resistors (SnapAmp does not).  It may be that your encoder doesn't have enough current drive for the 400 ohm termination. 

The way to diagnose these issues is to use a oscilloscope (or even a
voltmeter) and check what voltage levels you have before and after you make the connection.

I hope this helps

TK

From: Azd Md <azken98@yahoo.com>
To: DynoMotion@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Friday, January 2, 2009 2:25:45 AM
Subject: RE: [DynoMotion] Kmotion: how to read current position using c parogram

Hi Azed,

BTW all the console data gets logged to a
disk file called log.txt within the KMotion\Data subdirectory.

However if you want to write selected data
to a specific disk file you would need to write a PC program.  The
Download Waveform.cpp example might be the place to start.  It uses the
SetGatherHex command to put values from the PC into the DSPs Gather Buffer.  It
could be changed to use the GetGatherHex command to read values up to the PC,
which you could then write to disk.  Once you write a PC program there are
lots of possibilities such as triggering the data capture as well.

To compile and change the PC VC Examples without
any modifications you will need Microsoft Visual Studio 2008.

Regards

TK

From: DynoMotion@yahoogroups.com [mailto:DynoMotion@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Azd Md

Sent: Monday, January 05, 2009
6:28 PM

To: DynoMotion@yahoogroups.com

Subject: [DynoMotion] How to save
the gathered data to a file?

Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com

Version: 8.0.176 / Virus Database: 270.10.3/1877 - Release Date: 1/5/2009 7:20 PM


 

You should be able to drive the Brake directly with the Kanalog Relay Switches (Mosfets) if it requires 24V and 1 amp or less.  Make sure to add a reverse diode across the Brake to allow the current to recirculate when the switch turns off.

Yes that is a mistake.  The other JP6 should be JP8.  Thanks.

TK

From: Azd Md <azken98@yahoo.com>
To: DynoMotion@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, January 6, 2009 7:28:51 PM
Subject: RE: [DynoMotion] How to save the gathered data to a file?



 

Hi Tom Remember Texonics? I am Mark S we talked several times last year
(2008) I had an engineer leave and a couple big projects and I didn't
have time to finish the G-Code Kflop setup. I think where I left of was
trying to get Mach 3 to run with Kflop and Snap Amp. I will probably
have a few questions in the coming days.
Does everything still cooperate with Mach 3?
I see there are several new releases of software I was on 3.0?? I will
download everything get up to speed and then probably barrage you with
questions.

We are still interested in setting up a complete package based on Snap
Amp and kFlop. I have several things in mind as I now have a better
line on OEM motors than I did last year. We also have some ideas for a
custom case for Amp and controller combo.

Hi Mark,

Good to hear from you.  Those sound
like good plans.  Users are always looking for a good source for servo
motors.

Yes the Mach3 plugin has the basics and we
are looking for users to test and push us for more advanced features.  We
also have our own KMotionCNC application that we recommend.  It has some
advantages with trajectory planning and was designed more from the ground up
with an external controller approach.

Thanks for using the forum. 

I’ll look forward to questions and
results.

Thanks

TK

From: DynoMotion@yahoogroups.com [mailto:DynoMotion@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of fullottoman

Sent: Tuesday, February 10, 2009
2:49 PM

To: DynoMotion@yahoogroups.com

Subject: [DynoMotion] Getting back
on track with Kflop

Hi Tom Remember Texonics? I am Mark S we talked
several times last year

(2008) I had an engineer leave and a couple big projects and I didn't

have time to finish the G-Code Kflop setup. I think where I left of was

trying to get Mach 3 to run with Kflop and Snap Amp. I will probably

have a few questions in the coming days.

Does everything still cooperate with Mach 3?

I see there are several new releases of software I was on 3.0?? I will

download everything get up to speed and then probably barrage you with

questions.



We are still interested in setting up a complete package based on Snap

Amp and kFlop. I have several things in mind as I now have a better

line on OEM motors than I did last year. We also have some ideas for a

custom case for Amp and controller combo.

Checked by AVG - www.avg.com

Version: 8.0.233 / Virus Database: 270.10.19/1940 - Release Date: 02/08/09 17:57:00


 

Download KMotion
Version 4.11 - 2/18/09 (KMotion 
AND KFLOP) New_*

6
axes Coordinated Motion now supported

New
Selectable Screen Faces for KMotionCNC

http://www.dynomotion.com/Help/KMotionCNC/KMotionCNC.htm

Changes/Fixes from 4.10 - 4.11 - Details

Note: after
downloading a new version, Flash new firmware into KMotion using the
Config/Flash - New Version function.

I am currently looking at using a DynoMotion Card to replace our
current motion card. Our current motion card uses the ISA bus and
LM628. We are pretty happily with the ISA realiablity. Unfortunately,
it is impossible to get new PC with ISA slot so we are forced to
change. I would like to speak to DynoMotion sales engineer before
investing time my time into learning their product. Does DynoMotion
have a phone number? How is the product support?

Scott Dolan
732-300-9956

has anyone a mastercam postprocessor for the Kflop etc

Thanks
Dave

Hi Azd,

How long do they Flash? With a USB connected and no application running they
should flash for ~ 3 seconds. With no USB cable connected they should flash for
~1 second.

Does the board ever connect and work?
TK

--- In DynoMotion@yahoogroups.com, Azd Md <azken98@...> wrote:
>
>
> Hi All,
> I am using Kflop withe the latest Firmware. the problem the cars green leds
flashes for so long time, and i have to switch on and off the power to get it
working.
> Is there any thing i can do to have it starts fast?
> Thank you all
> --- On Thu, 2/19/09, TK <tk@...> wrote:
>
> From: TK <tk@...>
> Subject: [DynoMotion] V4.11 Released
> To: DynoMotion@yahoogroups.com
> Date: Thursday, February 19, 2009, 3:01 PM
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Download KMotion
> Version 4.11 - 2/18/09 (KMotion 
> AND KFLOP) New*
>
> 6
> axes Coordinated Motion now supported
>
> New
> Selectable Screen Faces for KMotionCNC
>
> http://www.dynomoti on.com/Help/ KMotionCNC/ KMotionCNC. htm
>
> Changes/Fixes from 4.10 - 4.11 - Details
>
> Note: after
> downloading a new version, Flash new firmware into KMotion using the
> Config/Flash - New Version function.
>
>  
>

Hi Azeddien,

The way differential signals work is that you
must put one input high and the other low to control the output.  Putting
the + signal at +5V and the – signal at ground should cause the differential
output to be high.  Putting the + signal at ground and the – signal at
+5V should cause the differential output to be low.

Putting both inputs at the same voltage
(ground) will not necessarily drive the output high or low.

There is a 470 Ohm terminating resistor between
the + and – inputs, so your encoder must be able to drive this load. 
Most will.

Let us know what you find.

Regards,

 TK

From: DynoMotion@yahoogroups.com [mailto:DynoMotion@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Azd Md

Sent: Tuesday, August 25, 2009
8:39 PM

To: DynoMotion@yahoogroups.com

Subject: [DynoMotion] encoder
channels on kanalog not working

Hi Azeddien,

KFlop currently only contains 4 single ended quadtrature encoder counters.  Kanalog converts these to 8 differential inputs.

The 8 remaining differential inputs may only be used as general purpose inputs such as Z index.

So KFlop+Kanalog only supports 4 encoders as feedback.

Adding a SnapAmp will add 4 more differential quadrature encoder inputs or you might use the other 4 KFlop axis channels as Step/Dir drives.

We do have plans to add more encoder counters to KFlop (They need to be instanciated in the FPGA).

Do you need more than 4 now?

Regards

TK

From: Azd Md <azken98@yahoo.com>
To: DynoMotion@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, August 26, 2009 3:01:54 AM
Subject: RE: [DynoMotion] encoder channels on kanalog not working

 

Azeddien,

Let us see if we can add more encoder channel to KFlop.

It will probably take a week or two.

TK

From: Azd Md <azken98@yahoo.com>
To: DynoMotion@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, August 26, 2009 9:10:47 AM
Subject: Re: [DynoMotion] encoder channels on kanalog not working

 

Azeddien,

You won't need to buy a new board.  It is a firmware change.

I'll let you know.  Thanks.

TK

From: Azd Md <azken98@yahoo.com>
To: DynoMotion@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, August 26, 2009 9:36:44 AM
Subject: Re: [DynoMotion] encoder channels on kanalog not working

 

Is it best to use rotary encoders on the screw or linear glass scale encoders on
the actual table? The CNC Brain uses both and I wanted to see how this
diferentiates.

I think this is a interesting question.  You might be a bit more specific.  Are you referring to steppers or servos?

Obviously linear glass scales as the feedback would potentially provide the highest accuracy as all mechanical errors such as backlash, compliance, lead screw errors are all in the loop.  The disadvantage with having more mechanical things in the loop is that it becomes more difficult to make the feedback loop respond quickly and to be stable.  For example consider a servo system with lots of friction and backlash.  If there is a
small error then the servo applies a torque.   If the torque is not enough to overcome friction then nothing happens so the servo (integrator) applies more torque.  Eventually the torque will overcome the friction and break away, but because of backlash the servo will still see no motion at the scales and so apply still more torque.  By the time any motion (or any information) is detected by the scales it can be too late to avoid an overshoot.  In such a system the only way to avoid increasing overshoot and oscillation is to use low gains such that the corrections are made slow and gradual enough to avoid excessive overshoot.

Most servos with linear scales utilize some form of feedback at the motor shaft to detect motion before the scales.  Either a shaft encoder or an analog
tachometer.  If an encoder is used it should be high resolution, not necessarily for accuracy, but rather to detect velocity with good resolution in a short period of time (dx/dt).

In some ways operating a Stepper Motor with closed loop linear scales is like a dual loop system.  A stepper motor passively holds position much like a spring. So in the example above with friction and backlash, once the motor breaks loose and moves the motor torque will naturally reduce even before the scales have indicated any motion. 

The next KMotion/KFlop software release will support a new Closed Loop Stepper Mode.  See:

http://dynomotion.com/Help/ClosedLoopStep/ClosedLoopStepper.htm

Currently to do true dual closed loop control with two active sources of feedback two KFlop Axis channels must be linked together in cascade by using a User Program.  This allows a full set if Servo parameters for both loops and allows plotting the performance of each loop separately.

I hope this helps

TK

From: mp006ltk <mp006ltk@yahoo.com>
To: DynoMotion@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Friday, August 28, 2009 11:16:12 PM
Subject: [DynoMotion] encoder type?

 

Is it best to use rotary encoders on the screw or linear glass scale encoders on the actual table? The CNC Brain uses both and I wanted to see how this diferentiates.

Hey TK,
Had to chime in here. :) Are you saying that 1 Kflop is capable of handling
both encoders and glass scales at the same time?Say.. for a 3 axis mill ;) For
true Dual Closed Loop.
Thinking of a future project.
Thanks again,
Troy

> The next KMotion/KFlop software release will support a new Closed Loop Stepper
Mode. See:
>
> http://dynomotion.com/Help/ClosedLoopStep/ClosedLoopStepper.htm
>
> Currently to do true dual closed loop control with two active sources of
feedback two KFlop Axis channels must be linked together in cascade by using a
User Program. This allows a full set if Servo parameters for both loops and
allows plotting the performance of each loop separately.
>
> I hope this helps
> TK
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: mp006ltk <mp006ltk@...>
> To: DynoMotion@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Friday, August 28, 2009 11:16:12 PM
> Subject: [DynoMotion] encoder type?
>
>
> Is it best to use rotary encoders on the screw or linear glass scale encoders
on the actual table? The CNC Brain uses both and I wanted to see how this
diferentiates.
>

Hi Troy,

Yes it is looking like we can increase the number of encoder inputs from 4 to 8 which would be necessary also.

TK

From: tmday7 <IVMTOOL@zoomtown.com>
To: DynoMotion@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, August 31, 2009 11:06:11 AM
Subject: [DynoMotion] Re: encoder type?


 Hey TK,

Had to chime in here. :) Are you saying that 1 Kflop is capable of handling both encoders and glass scales at the same time?Say.. for a 3 axis mill ;) For true Dual Closed Loop.

Thinking of a future project.

Thanks again,

Troy



> The next KMotion/KFlop software release will support a new Closed Loop Stepper Mode. See:

>

> http://dynomotion. com/Help/ ClosedLoopStep/ ClosedLoopSteppe r.htm

>

> Currently to do true dual closed loop control with two active sources of feedback two KFlop Axis channels must be linked together in cascade by using a User Program. This allows a full set if Servo parameters for both loops and allows plotting the performance of each loop separately.

>

> I hope this helps

> TK

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

> ____________ _________ _________ __

> From: mp006ltk <mp006ltk@.. .>

> To: DynoMotion@yahoogro ups.com

> Sent: Friday, August 28, 2009 11:16:12 PM

> Subject: [DynoMotion] encoder type?

>

>

> Is it best to use rotary encoders on the screw or linear glass scale encoders on the actual table? The CNC Brain uses both and I wanted to see how this diferentiates.

>




 

I was thinking of using servos with a rotary encoder connected to the driver and
then using glass scales through the motion controller. I have been reading up
on the competetive product, the CNC brain, and they can handle both throught he
controller but I'm told it runs really slow. I noticed dynomotion and now I was
hoping the kflop has more processing power. Safeguard robotics and dynomotion
need to merge and produce one kickass turnkey soloution. The brain seems to
have better software but it has problems without optoisolators and needs you to
make yout own breakout board. The Kflop seems to be much easier to install and
implement.

--- In DynoMotion@yahoogroups.com, Tom Kerekes <tk@...> wrote:
>
>
>
> I think this is a interesting question. You might be a bit more specific.
Are you referring to steppers or servos?
>
> Obviously linear glass scales as the feedback would potentially provide the
highest accuracy as all mechanical errors such as backlash, compliance, lead
screw errors are all in the loop. The disadvantage with having more mechanical
things in the loop is that it becomes more difficult to make the feedback loop
respond quickly and to be stable. For example consider a servo system with lots
of friction and backlash. If there is a small error then the servo applies a
torque. If the torque is not enough to overcome friction then nothing happens
so the servo (integrator) applies more torque. Eventually the torque will
overcome the friction and break away, but because of backlash the servo will
still see no motion at the scales and so apply still more torque. By the time
any motion (or any information) is detected by the scales it can be too late to
avoid an overshoot. In such a system the only way to avoid increasing overshoot
and oscillation is to use
> low gains such that the corrections are made slow and gradual enough to avoid
excessive overshoot.
>
> Most servos with linear scales utilize some form of feedback at the motor
shaft to detect motion before the scales. Either a shaft encoder or an analog
tachometer. If an encoder is used it should be high resolution, not necessarily
for accuracy, but rather to detect velocity with good resolution in a short
period of time (dx/dt).
>
> In some ways operating a Stepper Motor with closed loop linear scales is like
a dual loop system. A stepper motor passively holds position much like a
spring. So in the example above with friction and backlash, once the motor
breaks loose and moves the motor torque will naturally reduce even before the
scales have indicated any motion.
>
> The next KMotion/KFlop software release will support a new Closed Loop Stepper
Mode. See:
>
> http://dynomotion.com/Help/ClosedLoopStep/ClosedLoopStepper.htm
>
> Currently to do true dual closed loop control with two active sources of
feedback two KFlop Axis channels must be linked together in cascade by using a
User Program. This allows a full set if Servo parameters for both loops and
allows plotting the performance of each loop separately.
>
> I hope this helps
> TK
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: mp006ltk <mp006ltk@...>
> To: DynoMotion@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Friday, August 28, 2009 11:16:12 PM
> Subject: [DynoMotion] encoder type?
>
>
> Is it best to use rotary encoders on the screw or linear glass scale encoders
on the actual table? The CNC Brain uses both and I wanted to see how this
diferentiates.
>

Hi,
I have algoerithms with morer complex data types such as structurs and classes.
does the Kflop supports that, or is it possible to use Code composer studio
directly with Kflop and Kmotion boards.
Thanks

The included free TCC67 C compiler is 99% ANSI C compatible so complex structures and such are certainly possible.  But TCC67 is a C compiler not a C++ compiler (no classes).

Texas Instruments CCS can be used.  The COFF output file format (*.out) is compatible with TCC67 and loadable with our loader routines.  Also TCC67's debug information is compatible so TCC67 programs can be debugged with CCS.

However what is missing is a way to link calls from code you might write using CCS to make calls into KFlop/KMotion code.  TCC67 has a special feature to read in the symbol table from a COFF file to resolve external references.  I'm not aware of a similar capability for the TI compiler.  As a workaround if your code only needs to reference a few functions and variables you could print the addresses of those symbols using a TCC67 program then hard code them into your code.

So the short answer is that it is possible but with some difficulties.

TK

From: Azd Md <azken98@yahoo.com>
To: DynoMotion@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, August 31, 2009 11:08:55 PM
Subject: [DynoMotion] Can I use Code Composer Studio with Kflop?

 

Hi,
I have algoerithms with morer complex data types such as structurs and classes. does the Kflop supports that, or is it possible to use Code composer studio directly with Kflop and Kmotion boards.
Thanks

Hi, does anyone is using mach3 with those control cards? I would like to... so
wich one do you recomend me? I have a set of Yaskawa Junma servodrives
controlled with puls+sing signals.

Thanks beforehand.

Ivan

Hi Ivan,

If you have drives with Step/Dir inputs KFlop should work for you.

TK

--- In DynoMotion@yahoogroups.com, "hoyospetrola2" <hoyospetrola2@...> wrote:
>
> Hi, does anyone is using mach3 with those control cards? I would like to... so
wich one do you recomend me? I have a set of Yaskawa Junma servodrives
controlled with puls+sing signals.
>
> Thanks beforehand.
>
> Ivan
>

http://www.dynomotion.com/Software/Download.html

Download KMotion
Version 4.16 - 9/06/09 (KMotion 
AND KFLOP) New_*

More Mach3 Features - KFLOP encoder inputs increased to 8 !!

Changes/Fixes from 4.15 - 4.16 - Details

Note: after
downloading a new version,  Flash new firmware into KMotion using the
Config/Flash - New Version function.

with the talk of backlash comp using linear and rotary
encoders I was wondering if you have room in your device
to enable lead screw comp instead
with both encoders and a home switch
you could map the screw for pitch errors
and backlash
the EMC guys have it
as EMC is open source if you wanted you could use their
algorithms here is a description of the EMC comp

> The leadscrew compensation algorithm lets you specify two different
> compensation profiles, one for each direction of travel. The
> difference
> between the two represents the backlash. Using this approach you can
> compensate for a screw that has more backlash near the center where
> the
> wear is bad, and less near the ends where there is less wear.
mike

Hi Azed,

I’m not sure I understand your issue
completely.  It is probably impossible to set your position without a
possibility of at least one count change because a encoder might change at any
instant.  I think the following procedure should work.   The
WaitNextTimeSlice() will assure that the next few commands will execute without
interruption.  EnableAxis() sets the Dest to the current Position so the
Dest will always be guaranteed to be exactly the value specified. 

            WaitNextTimeSlice();

            DisableAxis(0);             ch0->Position
= -1000.0;

            EnableAxis(0);

TK

From:
DynoMotion@yahoogroups.com [mailto:DynoMotion@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Azd Md

Sent: Tuesday, September 08, 2009
8:51 PM

To: DynoMotion@yahoogroups.com

Subject: [DynoMotion] Zero Point
Return

I would think if your system has glass
scales it would be better to use that to close the loop rather than to try to
map errors.

Our KMotionCNC software supports a 2.5D nonlinear
geometric correction table, but it doesn’t allow different tables for
different directions.  See:

http://dynomotion.com/Help/KMotionCNC/ToolSetupScreen.htm#Geo_File

TK

From: DynoMotion@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:DynoMotion@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
Of m37grady

Sent: Tuesday, September 08, 2009
10:28 AM

To: DynoMotion@yahoogroups.com

Subject: [DynoMotion] Lead screw
comp

with the talk of backlash comp using linear and rotary

encoders I was wondering if you have room in your device

to enable lead screw comp instead

with both encoders and a home switch

you could map the screw for pitch errors

and backlash

the EMC guys have it

as EMC is open source if you wanted you could use their

algorithms here is a description of the EMC comp



> The leadscrew compensation algorithm lets you specify two different

> compensation profiles, one for each direction of travel. The

> difference

> between the two represents the backlash. Using this approach you can

> compensate for a screw that has more backlash near the center where

> the

> wear is bad, and less near the ends where there is less wear.

mike




 

-
>
> I would think if your system has glass scales it would be better to use that
> to close the loop rather than to try to map errors.

that way you are always chasing the backlash
be ok if I was running with nice new screws with nearly zero backlash
even then new cnc machine tools will have the screws mapped to microns with a
laser interferometer
as most of us are using 4th hand old NC machines or cobbled together systems
with variable backlash/pitch errors over the travel
and mach not being able do anything but a fixed amount of
backlash comp

with the screw being mapped you are ahead of the backlash
the scales would then only have to eliminate any accumuated backlash
from inaccurate mapping I can buy the Chinese .0002 lin scales for all 3 axis
cheaper than I could get one screw rebuilt

could be used without lin scales and mapped with gage blocks
and a .0001 indicator as long as you re homed it occasionally


mike

I am converting an old Bridgeport Boss mill to PC control and servos. I will be
using AMC or Copley +/-10V analog servo drives and Sanyo P5 servo motors, they
have 2000 line quadrature encoders.
Steve

Hi Steve,

Yes that should work.  I believe the Sanyo P5's are brushless motors so the encoder signals will probably need to be connected to the servo drives to do the motor commutation and also to Kanalog so KFlop can close the position loop.

Another option would be to use KFlop + 2 SnapAmps to drive and commutate 3 or 4 Sanyo P5's directly.

Good luck and let us know if you have any questions.

TK

From: srbliss2000 <srbliss2000@yahoo.com>
To: DynoMotion@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, September 23, 2009 2:50:31 PM
Subject: [DynoMotion] Will the Kflop and Kanalog work for me?

 

I am converting an old Bridgeport Boss mill to PC control and servos. I will be using AMC or Copley +/-10V analog servo drives and Sanyo P5 servo motors, they have 2000 line quadrature encoders.
Steve

--- In DynoMotion@yahoogroups.com, Tom Kerekes <tk@...> wrote:
>
> Hi Steve,
>
> Yes that should work. I believe the Sanyo P5's are brushless motors so the
encoder signals will probably need to be connected to the servo drives to do the
motor commutation and also to Kanalog so KFlop can close the position loop.
>
> Another option would be to use KFlop + 2 SnapAmps to drive and commutate 3 or
4 Sanyo P5's directly.
>
> Good luck and let us know if you have any questions.
>
> TK
>
Yes the P5's are brushless motors. I already have 20+ drives that I want to use
with these so no snap amps at this time - good to know they will work for me if
I needed them.
Steve
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: srbliss2000 <srbliss2000@...>
> To: DynoMotion@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Wednesday, September 23, 2009 2:50:31 PM
> Subject: [DynoMotion] Will the Kflop and Kanalog work for me?
>
>
> I am converting an old Bridgeport Boss mill to PC control and servos. I will
be using AMC or Copley +/-10V analog servo drives and Sanyo P5 servo motors,
they have 2000 line quadrature encoders.
> Steve
>